Help my beardie is still sick

[fifimac37]

Ok where should I start?? I have spike he's about ten months old and he's definatley a male. The problem is he is not eating at all. I have had him since christmas and he was doing fine untill i got a new female dragon and he just did not like her at all He was head bobbing and attacking her and completely went off his food. So we decided to give her to my brother and she is still doing well to this day . I had been on this site and looked at various topics about beardies not eating so I decided to give him baby food and i believe now that had kept him alive this had gone on for a month with a few locusts each week incorporated with daily baths and just bascially undivided attention. Then the worse thing happened he just stopped basking and hid under his vines in his tank i had to take him out of his tank just to wake him up at one stage we thought he had died because he was in such a deep sleep. After two months of baby food and not much of anything else I decided to drive halfway across the country to see a reputable vet. She did the works he had an xray fecal and blood tests. The result of which he had mild MBD and very bad parasites, he was not anemic he was weighed and I was told he was about 200g in weight she said he should be at least 300g for his age. She prescribed me septrin and pancur and also critical care formula. He is home from the vets about three weeks now and is finished his medication now but is still not eating. I have now ordered a new batch of critical care formula as he has put on weight and is really alert now he is basking and is even glass dancing like he used to before his illness The only problem is he just looks at his food licks it and turns his head. Poor little man is just sick of me at this stage , all I seem to do is stick things in his mouth. I even force fed him a locust yesterday hoping that it would remind him of how delicious they are to him but no
All his temps are correct he has all the correct bulbs at the right distance in the tank from him. He has a big tank to run around in he is offered all the correct veg also and to no avail he just will not eat. I am starting to think he is just used to me feeding him now and its just a habbit for him to get this done to him every day as its close to three months of syringes in mouth now . I bought him form a pet store and would seriously think twice about ever buying another from a pet store as they had no idea about keeping lizards i learned all I know about Beardies from this site. If any one has any ideas for me please let me know

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Sorry your post somehow got missed!
Could you run over your setup for us?
What type & brand of UVB are you using, is it a flourescent tube bulb, or a compact or coil light?
What type of basking light do you use, a bright white light or a colored light?
What type of substrate are you using, sand, tiles, paper towels?
Are you giving calcium supplementation?
What type of thermometer are you using to measure your temps, a round analogue stick on, a digital probe or a temp gun? What are the temperatures in the tank currently?
It is great you have him on the critical care because that should help him gain weight.
How are his stools now, are the improved from previously before he was put on the medication? Did you give probiotics while he was on the medication round?


Tracie

 

[fifimac37]

Hi thanks I thought no body cared about my little man
ok he has a flourescent tube reptiglo 10.0 he has a bright white light 75 watt and is about 12" from him
At night i have a heat mat under the viv but he doesnt like to lie near it he loves his hammock so he gets wrapped in his towel which is his bed for the night. I also have an infra red light for heat as his tank is quite big I live in ireland so its quite cold at night even indoors
He has black calci sand as a substrate
I give him nutrobal 4:0 as a calcium supp one pinch mixed with his critical care supp
I use digital probe themometre his temps at the minute are 97. on basking spot and 74 in the cool side taking in mind his 75 watt bulb blew lastnight and now have only a spare 40 watt to replace it. His stools are improving now but are still a bit on the runny side. as for a probiotic the vet has told me that there is one in the critical care so i have no need to get him a different one, I decided to try and give him some baby food and ccf at different intervals during the day since the last post to try and stimulate his appetite but still nothing he does not want to eat any suggestions ????

 

[Buggsy]

Ok so there are a few things we can improve upon,

flourescent tube reptiglo 10.0

These tube are actually quite bad for them, they are unreliable in the ammount of UVB emmitted , adn heath issues invole not eating, lethargy and eye problems. I suggest getting a reptiSUN 10, this is the BEST strip buld you little one could have. How old is the reptiGLO btw?

At night i have a heat mat under the viv

Unless your temps drop below 65 at night you really dont need anything. Heat matts are dangerous as beardies cant sense heat from below, so if it does short and get too hot, he wont know and will sit there until he gets burns! If you need suplimental heat at night, a ceramic heat emmitter is the best thing, it produces heat but no light so dosnt disturb your BD sleep pattern!

He has black calci sand as a substrate

Please remove this immediatly! Sand, or indeed any particle substrate comes with a risk of impaction, but calci sand is nutorious! It clums like hell and blocks them up from the inside over time, eventually they will go off food, become lethargic and possible die is the husbandary is not changed! I dont mean to sound sturn, but it just my preferance to use slate tile. If you did however want to use sand, please use washed kids playsand, and research into the best methods to avoid impaction, such as not feeding in the tank etc.

I give him nutrobal 4:0 as a calcium supp one pinch mixed with his critical care supp

Ok, the critical care formula needs to be made as a liquid and given orally. When i had to make it, 1 small pinch to 5 parts water, mix and give using a dropper.
As he is doing well, you will need to ween him off it, he will not want to eat normal food while he is being givin this yummy stuff! Take him off it for two days, if he still resuses, giv him the crit car for two days, then two days off again. Hopfully he will get hungry enough to get back to normal food, but it may take a while! (i speak from experiance!)

I use digital probe themometre his temps at the minute are 97. on basking spot and 74 in the cool side

Brilliant that you have a decent thermometer! But the temps are a little low. If the temps are too low they will have difficulty digesting food and will refuse to eat. Try and get a higher wattage. Your basking spot needs to be 100-105 for an adult (1.5 - 2 yrs ish) or 110-115 for a baby. How old is your boy? The cool side is again a little low, but im sure when you get perhaps a 100w bulb this will change!

Hopefully if youmake a few of these changes you will be able to see a difference!

 

[crickest]

A couple of things, and then maybe someone with more experience will also reply.

The reptiglo 10.0 is not a good bulb. The best tube bulb is a reptisun 10.0, which is what I use, and a lot of people like the Megaray or T-rex - those are bulbs that supply both light and heat (which you might try, since you live somewhere where its cooler). The UVB bulb makes a ton of difference in how active and hungry the dragon is. We lost a dragon the first part of April, and I am convinced that the bad bulb I had was at least a contributing factor in his demise.

Second, the calci-sand is a horrible substrate. It can cause impaction, because it clumps when it gets wet. It basically becomes concrete in your dragon's belly and the dragon can't pass it. It is really expensive to correct an impaction with surgery. It you look on the boards you can find a lot of information about substrate - playground sand that has been sifted, newspaper, tile, non-adhesive shelf liner, there are a bunch of options. We are using playground sand and Spark loves it.

Third, the infra red heat lamp will keep the beardie awake at night, which throws off their rhythms. A ceramic heat lamp will put off heat but no light and is best for keeping the tank warm during the night. The temps can drop as low as 65 degrees, so don't use the lamp unless you really have to. The dragons like to be cool while they sleep.

Finally, the heat mat. Beardies don't really need one. They can't sense heat on their bellies, only on their heads, and they prefer a cooler area to sleep. He's avoiding it because its too hot. They also don't recommend heated rocks, since the beardie can burn himself without realizing it.

As someone who also bought the wrong bulbs (now we have repti-sun 10.0) had a red heat lamp (now he does without), had the wrong substrate (had calci-sand) and bought a heat mat (never used it - thankfully) I understand how frustrated you might feel. I also know how happy you will feel once these things are changed. Good luck!

 

[fifimac37]

Thankyou all for your suggestions I will change his bulb not sure at the min where to get it as the pet store only stock the one i have at the minute but if the pet store cant order it in for me I will try and get it on the net some how :book: His temps were fine as i said until lastnight but the bulb blew this morning when i was switching it on (typical :roll: ) So they were the temps i gave at that time I Have some spare ceramic tiles in my garage so i will be getting my hubby to put them down in his tank asap at least the viv will go with the colour scheme in the house :L:L:L I have seen people posting comments before saying it was bad for them but never thought it was that bad for the little guys , I only want him to make it through this as the bond between me and spike has grown even more after being his florence nightingale for three months , even though he looks at me sometimes as if to say" not you again what are you going to do to me now." Id say he'd love to sit in his tank for one day without me shoving things into him :L:L:L:L I will keep you posted as to how he is doing hopefully fingers crossed he will be back to being my little spikey soon enough . Thanks Fiona XXXX

 

[Drache613]

Hello Fiona,

Great advice everyone.
Did you turn the Reptiglo 10 flourescent tube bulb off for now? I would just put a nice bright white basking light in for him right now until you can get another UVB light for him.
Since you are in the UK, you could also find the Arcadia D3 12% flourescent tube light which is also a great light, too. The Reptisun 10 flourescent tube light is an excellent one, as well.
How is he doing today?
The nutrabol is a good supplement. However, it will not be quite enough straight calcium to fulfill his calcium requirements since it is a vitamin & calcium mix. I would suggest getting some Calypso calcium powder or some Miner-All calcium to give to him 5 times per week & the nutrabol can be given 1-2 times per week. He is almost a year old so once he gets to be around a year or so old, you can cut the calcium down to 3 times per week.

Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie

 

[fifimac37]

update on spikes sickness. I have tried all the suggestions as stated above I bought him a reptisunn 5.0 for the pet store as they did not have 10.0 in stock he now has a tiled and grouted viv and i have given him ccf two days on and two days off we have had five really hot days in ireland and he has been in the garden basking on the patio while im gettin a tan :wink: But he still will not eat a bloody thing im really in the state of despair now at this stage he isnt even glass dancing anymore just up in his hammock or right at the top of his vine lookin really sad im really starting to think its not fair on him and what quality of life has he when he has no interest in hunting his food and looking really miserable all the time I have phoned the vet and she has said it might take a few months for him to recover but its been a few months now and still no sign of improvement in fact id say he is worse than ever (poor boy) I have started just today to shove some broccoli and the odd locoust into his mouth again hoping that he will improve he tries to spit them out at first but he knows whos the boss round here and he eats them for me but id just love to see him chasing his food again. Is it common for beardies to just get used to being hand fed and forget how to hunt for their food ?? I dont think i can carry this on for much longer as he has been sick since the begining of march and were are now in june?? any more sugestions would be really appreciated thankyou

 

[Buggsy]

I wouldnt shove whole food in his mouth, but you can get either critical care formula, and give it to him in a dropper, or dilute some squash or chicken babyfood with water and give it the same way.

Is he losing weight at all?

Im sorry, i forgot, did you say if you had had a feacal test done yet?

 

[fifimac37]

i have taken the locusts and halved them with scissors so they wouldnt be that hard for him to chew he had a fecal done when at the vets should i send another sample off now he has had his pancur?? He is finished his meds bout three weeks now yes he has put on some weight but still not nowhere near healty looking he still has wrinkles all down his back > he has been getting ccf and baby food as stated in the above posts and still no change

 

[Buggsy]

Just because im not sure what else is going on, i would have a feacle test done, to ensure the meds worked. Whe he has the all clear i guess its back to the drawing board!

I would moniter him for a few days, i know its stressful! perhaps he is a touch stressed at the new decore?? Mine gets pissy if i clean the cage, let alone move it around!

I really hope this gets sorted,but im all outa good ideas! It sounds like your a wonderful slave and are doing everything you can for him! hopefully he will come around??

Hugs!

Buggsy

 

[fifimac37]

spike has eaten a locoust yesterday Lets hope he is on the road to recovery. I changed his bulb to 100w his temp went up to 113. but it seemed to have done the trick because he was literally under the light for about five mins he was so much more alert and had a poo then out of nowhere he chased a locoust and devoured it so lets hope that was it maybe he likes it a bit warmer . I also gave him a little pancur the night before as he had very bad parasites when at the vet and maybe he needed just a little more than the vet stated but either way he looks alot better for it. I know i shouldnt take chances with medication but it was either that or watch him slowly die so the gamble ovbiously paid off. He hasnt eaten anything today but Im hoping that he will. I'll keep you posted.

 

[beardie parents]

The reptisun 5 is a good bulb. My understanding that from where you are located, there is another one available to you that we can't get. It's the Arcadia d12 (strip). It's supposed to be a better uvb bulb than even the reptisun 10 is. Is that available to you there?

 

[Seacow]

Hi Fiona,
I live in Ireland too (Galway) and I know how hard it is to get the Reptisun10.0 but there is a place that stocks them. It's Petworld in Dublin (Santry, near the airport) and they're well worth getting. I'm sorry to hear about your little boy, hopefully he recovers soon and we're sending happy vibes your way!
Sarah