pooping after phoenix worms

[beardie parents]

We fed these to Speedy and Zoom Zoom. We never noticed any whole worms in their poop, but then I didn't really check. We have half of the last order of these worms left as both my girls refuse to eat them. I guess they think they aren't big enough!

 

[VEGASLIZARD]

I am sorry to hear that Vern is under the weather, but do try the recommended piercing before giving up. I have been feeding PW's to Scorch and have never had a problem. He happily scarfs them down. He is quite spoiled and does like to be hand fed so he always eats them one at a time. He also seems to like to chew his food so maybe that is why they are being digested well.

 

[Embee]

We received our PWs today, and Cloudy likes them very much. We got received some advice from another poster (different thread) that the medium would be ok for a beardie his size (he's small, 6-7 inches), so we went ahead and ordered them, and fed him a few this evening. He ate 4, happily, but stopped there, left the last one on the dish (he'd just eaten 9 medium crickets as well, so he was apparently satisfied), and stepped up to his rock to "digest." At any rate, I think the size was an important factor. They were within safe range (not bigger than the space between his eyes), but were big enough that he had to really chew them up. Also, took the advice of dragonphoenix here on this thread and fed him just a few at a time. I suppose we'll find out how things "come out" soonly. Thanks again for posting this, OP. Hope Vern is doing better. Em

 

[VEGASLIZARD]

At any rate, I think the size was an important factor. They were within safe range (not bigger than the space between his eyes)

FYI the difference in size between medium and large PWs is not great. I order large ones and they are still smaller than medium meal worms or wax worms so even large ones would be ok for little guys.

 

[Embee]

FYI the difference in size between medium and large PWs is not great. I order large ones and they are still smaller than medium meal worms or wax worms so even large ones would be ok for little guys.

Thanks. Yes, I'm definitely seeing that the medium are quite "petite" so the large can't be that much bigger. And well, as reporting goes, everything "came out just fine" this am. Looked as normal and ever. Funny thing though, when we fed crickets this am, he looked at us like, "Huh? Where are those yummy worms?" Wanted to use up the last of our current batch of crickets before they croak... he'll get some worms this pm.

Indeed, after we use the mediums, I think we'd be ok to use large, as well. And then, is it my understanding that butterworms are sort of the "lateral step up" (similar to PWs, but bigger) as dragons grow? Heard good things about those too.

Thanks again! It's just so good to see our dragon excited about eating again... I can't tell you!

The best,
Em

 

[Embee]

Well, we had our first "worm poop" this morning. A whole one, pooped out... quite cleanly, I might add. I thought perhaps one had escaped the bowl and was cruising about the enclosure, but I'd counted and I knew this wasn't the case. He DID get a little excited about the worms this am. We give him a few a time, but when he sees the few, he goes at 'em with a certain, vigor. :wink: I watched as he ate them, and I'm fairly certain he chewed most of them well, but one or two did seem to go down a little too quickly. He then went in for a very long basking rock session which is rare, and I wondered if he wasn't, ahem, "working on something." Think we'll slow the feeding down a bit more, keep an eye on it... he is not too interested in crickets, and the worms are so good for him.

If need be, I'll stab the little suckers...

Actually, I might get my wife in on the act of pinning these little buggers. She's appalled that we're deliberately bringing maggots into the house, but stabbing them might make her feel better.

:laughhard: Indeed!

The best,
Em

 

[Embee]

I should add, that all other poops since beginning the worms have been fine. In fact, yesterday he pooped twice, which he hasn't done in months. Pretty exciting stuff. :wink:

Also, I realized that we did something different this am, in that, we went to greater lengths to clean the bedding off the worms. We placed them in a cup of water, and then blotted them on a paper towel. However, for the last few we forgot to towel them off, and plopped them in while they were still pretty wet. Since he hasn't had any digestion issues until today, I wonder if the extra slimy texture could have had something to do with today's "passing of the worm, the whole worm, and nothing but the worm?" Perhaps, it just slid down before he could chew it? They are slippery little suckers even when right out of the bedding! :mrgreen: Think I'll go back to the way we were doing it before. See if that doesn't clear things up.

The best,
Em

 

[dragonphoenix36]

Also, I realized that we did something different this am, in that, we went to greater lengths to clean the bedding off the worms.

The best,
Em[/quote]

I'm fairly sure you don't have to go through all of that to get the packing off the worms..you should get as much as you can off, but I think if your beardie gets a little bit, it shouldn't hurt them. I get them out with a fork, which helps, and then roll them around on a paper towel to get the rest.
I used to be skeeved out by the thought of them being "maggots" but I suppose I'd rather have maggots in my house than roaches because the maggots can't crawl out of the container..LOL.

 

[Embee]

I'm fairly sure you don't have to go through all of that to get the packing off the worms..you should get as much as you can off, but I think if your beardie gets a little bit, it shouldn't hurt them. I get them out with a fork, which helps, and then roll them around on a paper towel to get the rest.
I used to be skeeved out by the thought of them being "maggots" but I suppose I'd rather have maggots in my house than roaches because the maggots can't crawl out of the container..LOL.

Thanks for this. I did as you suggested here, this am. Much easier, less hassle, and because I had to dust them today with vites, they were actually fairly dry. Beardie chewed each one... AND, poop this am before the feed was just fine, so I think it was just a single, errant, worm that worked it's way down without being punctured by teeth. He seemed a little more tentative about the worms today, would eat one, two, and three, and then wait awhile, repeat. His appetite was down in general today, not sure if it was just a natural ebb in the flow, or if he was feeling a little traumatized from yesterday's worm passing. :|

Thanks! The worms certainly are easier to manage and they are full of good stuff, so I'm glad Cloudy likes them. I've been trying to give him the last of our crickets for three days and he isn't having any. I can't believe they're still alive! Hardy threesome they are. :mrgreen:

The best,
Em

 

[VEGASLIZARD]

I just dump the PW's in a little cup of water cause I figure the extra moisture he gets eating them wet can't hurt and it is the fastest way to clean the bedding off. The maggots float and the bedding sinks. The only problem with PW's is if I try to put them in his food dish they crawl out before he can eat them all and I have to watch the whole time and keep putting them back in the bowl with the tweezers. :roll: Seems these little escape artists are easiest fed by hand or by dropping one at a time in front of the master as if feeding grapes to Cesar. hehe

 

[Embee]

Seems these little escape artists are easiest fed by hand or by dropping one at a time in front of the master as if feeding grapes to Cesar. hehe

Yes, I'm surprised at how well these little things get around, and off the dish. This afternoon, we were getting a little frustrated that Cloudy wasn't much interested in eating, so I offered him one at a time, on a plate, and he delicately nabbed each, and ate. The term "beardie slave" did come to mind! :wink:

Em

 

[Elora]

Both of my beardies poop out the PWs. Almost all of them come out whole. I dont feed mybeardies before bed and I have correct temps. Going to try the pin pricking thing though. I really hate keeping crix and other feeders are a bit more expensive so i really like PWs for their price and nutrition. When my new order comes in im going to poke them before feeding and see how that goes!

 

[ameleigh]

I've used phoenix worms for about 6 months now and I have had him poo out wholish worms but that doesn't happen often when I just feed him a little at a time. I'll put several on his plate in the morning, once when I first see him and then again before I leave and when I get home in the evening I'll give him a few more if there is enough time before his lights go out.

 

[sandyvern]

I have used PWs for a staple food for my beardies for the past year or so. And never had any show up in poop. Although I did have parts of superworms show up when I introduced them to my juvie for the first time....but that only happened the one time (and was probably cause he had to many the first time cause he is a little piglet)...it was a little unnerving but hasn't happened since. And I have since read on here that it is probably from introducing a new food...and the combination of having too many the first time. Maybe might be the same with Vern? (Love the name Vern by they way...Vern is a nickname a couple of my friends and I use ) And of course everyone...including beardies are individual...so maybe just doesn't work for him. Hope Vern feels better soon!

Sandy

 

[Epic]

It's pretty clear that the recommendation to take phoenix worms out of the diet makes perfect sense. It doesn't matter how ideal phoenix worms are as a feeder, if the dragon isn't digesting them then they aren't doing the dragon any good.

This would only cure the symptom, not the cause. If your husbandry is correct, you must be feeding too many at a time, or your dragon isn't basking long enough after eating the worms. Pheonix worms are widely accepted as great feeders. If you ever feel the urge, I highly recommend trying them out again. I'm not saying you, or your vet is wrong; just throwing my 2 cents out there.